Update #35: Legion TD 2 Beta Update

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Jules, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Hey guys!

    Normally we do updates on a monthly cadence, but we've got a bunch of important news that we wanted to share as soon as possible.

    Digital box art is complete!
    We're thrilled to present Legion TD 2's digital box art 'The King' to you. Kneel before your king!

    forum-900x625.jpg

    Legion TD 2 logo revamped!
    We also made some improvements to the Legion TD 2 logo to make it sleeker and more modern. We're not 100% satisfied with it yet, but we believe this is a change in the right direction.
    comparison.png
    Release date now early 2017
    We need a bit more time to get the game ready for launch. We're working our hardest to make this possible and are aiming for February 2017. I know that sucks, but we'd rather ensure quality than rush it. Over the past few months, we've refactored the code base (so it's more stable), made major design improvements, and substantially upgraded our art. These changes took time but have significantly improved the game and our ability to support it for years to come. Legion TD 2 is almost here, we promise.

    Full game now purchasable, still free to try
    Okay, back to good news! We decided to make the full game purchasable and scrap the microtransaction model. Let's be honest: freemium isn't free. Players spend more on microtransactions and get less. If you look at games with microtransactions, you'll see crafting, essence, dust, chests, keys, drops, and bundles. These are all ways of masking the fact that you're spending money to unlock content.

    When you get Legion TD 2, you get the full game. That means all current and future legions are permanently unlocked from the start, and it means you won't constantly be pressured to pay money to unlock gameplay content. We still want to include unlockable cosmetic items and allow the community to create their own skins and effects. To Aqua+ Kickstarter backers and anyone that already pre-ordered a beta key, don't worry - you're taken care of. You now officially own the full game of Legion TD 2.

    We're making this change because it allows us to focus 100% on the game rather than on monetization. When the game releases, our priorities will be fixing bugs, balancing the game, designing new legions, and releasing new features, not deciding which skin to sell next.

    With that said, we still think Legion TD 2 should be free to try, so we're introducing Guest Play. Guest Play allows you to play the game for free, but you'll have limited access to content and features. This gives you an opportunity to try Legion TD 2 for free, and if you enjoy it, you can get the full game. It's also really helpful if you're trying to convince a friend to play.

    Pre-order for Legion TD 2: Founder's Edition

    Founder's Box Art.png
    We heard your feedback that you guys wanted some special perks for pre-ordering the game! If you pre-order, you'll now receive the Founder's Edition of Legion TD 2, which includes:
    • FULL GAME: All current and future legions unlocked
    • EARLY ACCESS: Access to the game one week before official launch
    • FOUNDER STATUS: Your name listed in the game's credits as a founder
    • BONUS CONTENT: Pyro's 'Blue Fire' VFX and Dark Mage's 'Magician' skin
    The ability to order the Founder's Edition will be discontinued prior to launch. Aqua+ Kickstarter backers and those that already pre-ordered a beta key have been automatically upgraded to the Founder's Edition.

    Pre-ordering is currently available through Humble Bundle and will soon be available on Steam. If you prefer not to pre-order, the standard edition of Legion TD 2 will be available for purchase on Steam on launch.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    Ferudas, vzk and Ya Dingus like this.
  2. RaVe

    RaVe Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Interesting changes you made there..
    So if i understand it right there won't be any microtransactions anymore - not even for skins?
    I'd have liked to have some sort of special-skins that not a lot of people have but I guess that won't be the case now :/
    Personally I liked the free2play model more but I guess it has both pros and cons :)
     
  3. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Great point! I added some clarification in the original post. We still want to include unlockable cosmetic items and allow the community to create their own skins and effects. We completely agree with you that special skins are cool and want to support that!
     
    RaVe likes this.
  4. Ya Dingus

    Ya Dingus Member

    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    im actually really happy about these changes. i hate the trend that all the new games are doing with microtransactions. just give me the damn whole game
     
  5. Jakob Winkler

    Jakob Winkler Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi Jules,

    I'm really happy to see how this games gets closer to release. My question is: i ordered Legion TD via Humble Bundle a month ago, so i will get the Founders Edition i guess. Is the Closed Beta key included there, because thats the thing I really wanted and i dont want to miss the chance to play the beta.

    Good luck in your development process and best wishes from Germany
     
  6. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Hi Jakob! Yes, you still get a closed beta key. To be clear, the game is launching in beta, so there's no longer a major distinction between owning the game and playing the beta, but yes, you will be participating in the beta. What's important is that you're playing at the earliest possible time (1 week before official launch) and you own the full game + extra goodies. :)
     
  7. Adry

    Adry Member

    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    What will include Guest Play? I'm asking because I feel having to buy the game will be a barrier for a lot of people and we may have a lack of players.
    Guest Play will be freemium or just a capped version of the game? I'm thinking with brawlhalla, it's freemium but you can buy the "all characters pack" and have all the characters available or play the old way saving gold and unlocking each one, but everyone can still play ranked for free.
     
  8. gillesr

    gillesr Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    i hope you will take the time to read this loooong post from someone who don't understand this damned changes.

    So first things first :

    i'm a baker from kickstarter and one of your followers for every legion TD made earlier.
    i love that game and when you launched it on kickstarter of course i would back you.

    I know production, disign and others developments can take time, i can cope with it ( see conan game with more than1 years delay ).
    i can understand you wanted to change the economic system of the game, sure why not afterall it is your game and if it can be more fun for the majority of peoples then go on.

    we gain 1 vfx and 1 skin

    now for the bad part :

    i'm feeling a little robbed when i read your post via kickstarter ....
    1) you can launch your game since peoples from the world gave you money for what you told us, seeing peoples pre-buying the game and receving the same reward as us for far less cheaper , sorry if i'm feeling robbed or insulted. what's the purpose of backing you then ?

    2) the founder's edition sounds great on paper, on backers end it is chaotic !

    1$ : name listed on game credits - deleted ?
    5$ : early backer medaillon in-game - deleted ?
    early backer medaillon forum - deleted ?
    KS exclusive brute s warrior skin - deleted ?

    ok so in fact these peoples will receive nothing ?

    20$: closed beta-key - ok
    KS exclusive aqua spirits liquid smok vfx - deleted ?

    for those what most peoples would probably understand is i have a beta-key and when the game launch i start with the minimalist game with micro economy more stuffs to buy so yes the game will cost a lot , since now they have the full unlocked game at the same price than pre-buyer it is more interesting for them i guess

    50$: ( mine )
    customize your name color in end game credits - deleted ?
    +4 starting legion permanently unlock - deleted
    +priority access beta login queue - deleted ?
    + first-choice username registration - deleted ?
    KS exclusive zeus plasma rifle vfx - deleted ?

    i pay 2.5 times the game for an ingame booster for cosmetics , tell me the price for those cosmetics ? 30$ difference is already a lot just for cosmetics.
    Can you explain your X2/X3 multiplier

    150$ : all future legions unlocked - now cost 20 bucks wwwaaaaaa
    digital artbook - deleted ?
    digital soundtrack - deleted ?
    KS exclusive krakens forgotten one skin - deleted ?

    Be aware that we have backed you on an official platform and changing the rewards we paid for on you own accords will perhaps lead to problems

    I hope it is just a misunderstanding and you will clear my view from all those clouds ......

    a proud backer of the game
     
  9. Themryon

    Themryon Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    3
    While I can understand that this new business-strategy is necessary, i agree with user gillesr that you need to explain some things regarding the kickstarter-backer-statusses.
    I also would like to adress 1 more problem:
    I backed you guys because i loved the idea -and not necessary for the reward- that we (a group of 8 friends and me) could play a better and more polished version of Legion TD for free. I have some friends who are not willing to pay 20$ or more for the game (but i am). Now -with these changes- it looks to me that this no longer is possible and that MAYBE (depending on my group of friends) we can't play LegionTD2 together and thus you loose the entire group (which is also a waste of my money, in my opinion).
    So UNLESS the guest-mode is something like in starcraft: if you play in a party, you can play the same things as one who has bought the game I am not so happy with these changes. Can you clarify some things regarding this guest-mode?

    Sorry that this sounds negative, but i think there needs to be some more explanations :)

    tl;dr: Can you explain kickstarter-rewards + guest-mode? Thx
     
  10. MoonTheDemon

    MoonTheDemon Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    As a 20$ tier backer I'm getting more advantages out of the changes but I've to aggree with gillesr and Themryion.

    They supported you with more money and got promised to get a shortcut in terms of unlocking legions and some other goodies.
    While Im really sad about the changed time ( but that's because I've exams around the beta start ._.) I think it's the right thing to do if needed.

    There are a few problems I see with this F2P -> "B2P" change:
    +You are not dependent on people buying stuff / microtransactions.
    +There will be less arguments about " LEGION XYZ IS OP NERF PLZ!!!11!"
    +There will be less people (with multiple account) that just ruin matches just cause they can.

    -There are no hats I can buy :/
    -After you sold the game you won't get more money
    -> Unless there is a steady stream of new players the developement is limited to a set period and the game might die sooner than later / add the server costs.
    -> You backpedal on your word and add microtransactions / DLCs / addons... which will hurt the trust your community has in you
    -Depending on the guest-mode there will be less players testing the game than if it were F2P. -> This hurts the community growth, the existing players ( since there is a smaller playerbase) and will stop players that want to spent a bit of money each month / every few month on a game they enjoy instead of just buying one they MIGHT enjoy.


    I'm a (former) WoW player that played many years, I've played League of Legends and DotA 2 for huge amounts of time and spent quite a bit of money on them. Why ? Because I enjoy them and if I calculate it I've got more out of them for my money than normal buy to play games since they continue to expand. Let's say I buy a PC game for 60€ and play it for 20-30 hours. So I pay ~ 2€/hour which would be good (in terms of AAA titles).
    Compare this to a F2P like DotA, I've played ~ 900 hours on my current steam account and have spend ~100€ on it. That's around 9 hours / € which is insane value in my opinion. Let's compare this to Legion TD 2, for 20€ I'd expect to play at least ... let's say 20 hours.
    If I play 0.5 - 1 hour each day I'd reach this in a month. Even if the game fails and there is no player base left after a month I'd be happy with the amount I spend. As someone who plays quite a bit of video games ( more than an hour per day ;) ) I enjoy games for a longer time and I'm happy to pay for the value I get just as I pay 15-20€ for a trip to the cinema or play billards with friends ( which has a worse quote in terms of time/money ;) ).
    Things like the DotA 2 compendiums allow me to support the developement, helping the playerbase / interest in the game ( since it increases the price pool, same with tournament tickets) while gaining stuff to customize my characters on top of it. -> I'm happy, Valve is happy, everyone is happy.

    Another argument of you are priorities since creating skins takes time -> costs money, why don't you integrate the steam workshop / the community in this ?
    The recent warhammer chest in DotA 2 had items submitted trough the workshop if I remember right -> It cuts down developement time, you get some money, the community can choose which items they want to see and players that design items get money out of that.
    While it's your choice I think there has to be a business model that works in the long run since the Legion TD community is a long living one if you look at WC3 ;).

    TL:DR: Give hats, involve the community in the hats creation and have a game existing for the next 100.000 years.
     
  11. Diablo

    Diablo Member

    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    As some people have said this is (on one side) good news for the aqua tier supporters. But I can totally understand if higher tier supporters are upset about this change since their tiers just got a pretty big downgrade (compared to the cheaper ones). Not sure what I should think about it unless you find ways to compensate them somehow. You should also make clear what happens with their cosmetic tier rewards like "Kraken’s “Forgotten One” skin" and such, will they still get them or only the stuff from the founder's edition everyone preordering gets? Transparency is (/should be) a key element and with such big chances you should communicate more clearly.

    While I'm generally no big fan of f2p games this concept imo fit well for these rather "simple" online games like mobas, trading card games and also LTD 2. It increases the number of players, allows easy testing of it and can e.g. offer the full gaming experience for free and just sell cosmetic stuff which seems to work for many of such games - which looks like a win-win situation for everyone to me.

    I'm a bit sceptical that people that have never played legion td before will buy a buy-to-play game.

    Though I'm glad you delayed the release and take the time you need.
     
  12. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    43
    We're still working on the specifics of Guest Mode, but the current plan is that you can freely play the game as much as you want and you'll have access to all legions, but some features, such as being able to fully level up, may be limited.

    Guest Play is going to be really useful for new players because it gives them an opportunity to try the game for free!
    This was just miscommunication on my part, I'm sorry about that! We had a ton of news we wanted to share, so sometimes things slip through the cracks.

    As a Kickstarter backer, you still receive all the rewards we promised. Everything offered in the Founder's Edition is in addition to that! You will receive an email next month about collecting information so we can distribute rewards. Some rewards will be coming in December and others will be coming a bit later with the launch of the game.

    The reason we're giving the never-ending 2x multiplier on in-game currency to Zeus backers and the never-ending 3x multiplier to Kraken, Granddaddy, Maccabeus, and King backers is that these tiers were offered a reward in the form of unlocked Legions. Because we're now permanently unlocking Legions for you and everyone that buys the game, we wanted to give something extra to these backers.

    Analogy (for explanatory purposes)
    For Halloween, we're giving a Snickers candy bar to everyone, including Kickstarter backers. Some backers already had a Snickers as one of their rewards. To be nice and fair to them, we're also giving them a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. We're not taking away anyone's candy.

    This was an analogy for explanatory purposes. We're not actually shipping anyone candy, as much as we'd like to. :p
    Kickstarter rewards explained above! Was miscommunication on my part, sorry about that. We're not taking anything away from Kickstarter backers.

    We're still working on the specifics of Guest Mode, but the current plan is that you can freely play the game as much as you want and you'll have access to all legions, but some features, such as being able to fully level up, may be limited. It's a great way to convince your friends to play the game.

    To be clear, it's $19.99 USD for a full, polished, standalone game with reconnecting, matchmaking, stat-tracking, etc. We set this price because it reflects the quality of the game and the effort that went into making it.

    Great points! We still want to offer avatars, skins, visual effects, hats, pets, sound packs, etc. Just as you suggested, we want the community to be heavily involved.

    We don't like the idea of making you buy a legion, which is a core part of the game. We believe gameplay content should be fully unlocked for people who have the game! We don't want to become Clash Royale, which is a fun game but is also pay-to-win.
    Sorry I wasn't clear about this! We had a ton of news we wanted to share, so sometimes things slip through the cracks. I clarified for gillesr and Themryon above that Kickstarter backers will still receive all the rewards we promised. The Founder's Edition is a bonus!

    Guest Play is going to be really useful for people that have never played Legion TD because it gives them an opportunity to try the game for free!
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
    Themryon and MoonTheDemon like this.
  13. MoonTheDemon

    MoonTheDemon Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Still, how do you plan to fund developement in the long run ? Or is your "no microtransaction" a shortened version of "no microtransactions that have an effect on the game outside of customization". :)

    By the way I hate you for the box art since there's no way to get a real copy of it....
     
  14. Themryon

    Themryon Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thanks for the reply Jules, you guys communicate with the community which is already a lot!
     
  15. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    43
    We're not planning on having microtransactions immediately at launch. Later on, we'd like to have cosmetic microtransactions but mostly community-made content. We're committed to having gameplay

    And I know! A physical game box would be such an awesome collector's item!
    Thanks, Themryon! One thing I've learned is that almost no matter what a game developer says, someone will be unhappy. That's why a lot of developers shy away from transparency and communication. Lisk and I grew up posting on forums and love being a part of the community. That's why I try to engage and respond as much as possible. Lisk would be here more if he weren't so busy coding the game. ;)
     
  16. awesomeful

    awesomeful Member

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Why the change in length of beta? I understand that beta won't be ready december 2016, but yet release date won't/can't be pushed back? I would think that having more than a week to fix things up for official release would be preferable.
     
  17. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    43
    When the game launches, we're still referring to it as in beta, but we're doing a ton of internal testing and alpha testing before that. The 1 week early access period is part of the beta.
     
  18. NICOLAI89

    NICOLAI89 Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thanks Jules for clarifying most of the community's concerns.
    I -personally- strongly support you guys and having you around clarifiying our doubts and being in permanent contact with the community is such a great 'pro' that dull the fact the game is being delayed a few months. Also, the delay is being justified by you, so it is totally understandable given the facts.
    I rather wait longer and receive a high quality end product than rush you guys for a mediocre game (which is clearly not the case).

    With this said, I do support the changes and I prefer the new approach.
    However, I am not a kickstarter baker because when I realized that the game was being developed as standalone the kickstarter campaign was over, but I purchased the Humble Bundle as soon as I heard of it. Still, I am ok with the benefits offered for the kickstarter bakres and I do agree they deserve the distinction that was agreed.

    Good luck with the development and thanks again for being in touch with us all.
     
    Jules likes this.
  19. Akitos

    Akitos Member

    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Why is everyone talking about a "delay" here :O He's talking about release, not about closed beta release, no? You should make this more clear in your start post Jules. "Release date now early 2017 ... We need a bit more time to get the game ready for launch. We're working our hardest to make this possible and are aiming for February 2017." Doesn't sound like beta to me. I am confused D:
     
  20. Jules

    Jules Developer Staff Member

    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Sorry for the confusion! There's no distinction between the game being released and the beta. The game is being released in beta in early 2017, which means things won't be perfectly balanced and that features such as guilds and a level editor won't be immediately available. The game will be polished and fully functional though, so don't worry!
     
    Akitos likes this.